Reply by Illias Suttar
to an Ahmadi's book : "Shaitan key Chailey"
written by : Hadi Ali Choudary

  Ahmadis / Qadianis : ABOUT TURN

Hadi Ali Chaudhary has accepted as true and right my challenging point atleast 8 times

My  Most  Happy  Moment

--------------Part One-------------

          Hadi Ali Chaudhary has written a book "Shaitan Ke Chailae" published by Islam International Publications Limited, U.K. The book has been printed in U.K. by Raqeem Press, Tilford, Surrey, GU10 2AQ.

The book contains 666 pages. My booklet "Can Ahmadis / Qadianis Answer?" has been answered from page 589 till page 664.

Hadi Ali Chaudhary  has  accepted  as  true  and  right  my

challenging  point   atleast  8  times

My  Challenge:

           I had given a challenging question on which I had placed a reward of Rs.1 crore to be given to any Ahmadi/Qadiani if he can convince any Qadiani judge  OR  Hindu or Christian judge of any Supreme Court of the world to give the judgement that the challenging question of Illias Suttar is wrong.

           My presence during the proceedings of the Court was not necessary. The Judge could hear the case and give the judgement in my absence also. I had also announced a gift of Rs.25,000/= to the first Ahmadi / Qadiani whose case will be admitted for hearing in the Court. 

According to Mirza Ghulam Ahmed:

 (1)              According to MGA:  Hadrat Isa died in 120 A.D.

(2)              According to MGA:  seeds of Trinity in Christianity were sown after the death of Hadrat Isa  i.e. after 120 A.D.

(3)              According to MGA:  Paul started the doctrine of Trinity.

(4)              According to history: Paul died in 65 A.D.

The Challenging Question: 

St. Paul died in 65 A.D.

 Since Paul must have given the doctrine of Trinity during his life time i.e. before 65 A.D., this means that Hadrat Isa was made God at least 55 years before His own death. In other words by 65 A.D. Hadrat Isa was made God/Son of God while he died 55 years later in 120 A.D……… Therefore Mirza Ghulam Ahmed was wrong in saying that seeds of Trinity in Christianity were sown after the death of Hadrat Isa  i.e. after 120 A.D.……… This was my challenge.

Since, according to Mirza Ghulam Ahmed seed sowing of Trinity started after 120 A.D., therefore  NOT EVEN one man should have believed in Trinity before 120 A.D. …………  This was the fault of Mirza.  

 In Urdu Language, my challenging question was in these 3 paragraphs:-

 (1)     "Kya Shirk ki Tukhumraizee Hadrat Isa (AS) ki ‘Mirzai mout’ sey  55 saal qabal nahee hoee".

 (2)     Page # 592  "Shaitan Ke Chailae":-  ( Illias Suttar says that according to ‘Anjam-e-Athum’ page # 321 written by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed it is concluded that ) ……… "Shirk to shirk, is ki tukhum raizi bhi Hadrat Isa (AS) ke faut honei ke baad hoee.  Jub tak Hadrat Isa (AS) zinda thei tub tak shirk ki tukhum raizi ki bhi gunjaish nahin thi."

 (3)     Page # 593  "Shaitan Ke Chailae" quoted Illias Suttar’s article as follows:-    "Mirza Sahib ney "Anjam-e-Athum" mein saaf fermadia ke son 120 sey pheley shirk ki tukhum raizi ki koi gunjaish nahin yaani  shirk ki tukhum raizi son 120 ke baad hoee."

 Thank you,  Mr. Hadi Ali Chaudhary:

           Instead of proving my challenging question wrong, you have atleast 8 times AGREED that my challenging question was right.

           You have very clearly agreed in reference no. 1 that in the absence of Hazrat Isa the seed of Trinity was sown among the disciples by Paul. 

          I quote below from your book "Shaitan Ke Chailae" as follows:-

 (1)              Page # 604:      Pus huwwariyon ke daur mein yeh bigaar shoroo ho chuka tha. Yaani aik tarf ke huwwariyon mein Hadrat Isa (AS) ki ghair haazri mein Paul ke zariyeh shirk ki tukhum raizi ho gai thi………. Goya dono jaga shirk ki tukhum raizi yaa is ka shoroo tub hua jab Hadrat Isa (AS) in mein na rahey. Aik hissay mein bawaja hijrat aur dosray mein wafaat ke baais.

(2)              Page # 601:   Hadrat Messiah (AS) ki is mazkura bala tehreer mein na yeh likkha huwa hey ke shirk ki tukhum raizi sirf Hadrat Isa (AS) ke fout honei ke baad hee hoi aur na Aap (AS) nei yeh fermaya hey ke jabtak woh zinda they, Isaiyoun ke kisi guruh mein bhi tukhum raizi nahin hoi thi.

(3)              Page # 602:    Is ilaqay ke logoan mein sey kuch bani israile aur kuch ghair israile log Paul ke pechey lug gay thei.

(4)              Page # 603:   HIJRAT Isa (AS) ke baad mahjoor ilaqay mein hawwariyon ka daur. Jin mein Paul ney shirk ka beej boya.

(5)              Page # 603:     Yaani Paul ney Hadrat Isa (AS) ki hijrat ke baad aap ki adum mojoudgi mein, lekin Aap (AS) ki zindagi mein hee Damishq mein shirk ki tukhumraizi ki……….

(6)              Page # 604:     Woh huwwari  jo Hadrat Isa (AS) ki hijrat ke baad mahjoor ilaqay mein reh gai thei.  In mein sey baaz mein Paul ney shirk ki tukhum raizi ki.  In ka daur is ilaqay mein Hadrat Essah (AS) ki zindagi mein hee shoroo ho chuka tha.

(7)              Page # 601:  Yaani shirk aur fasaad ki ibtida juzvi tor per Paul ke zaryei hawwariyon ke daur hee mein shooroo hoi aur bil-aakhir baad az wafat Isa (AS)………

(8)              Page # 605:      Lakin jo Aap (AS) ki barah-e-raast nigrani ke dairey sey bahar thei in mein sey sirf aik hissah mein shirk ki ibtida hoee. Pus mahjor ilaqay ki aik bohat hee mehdood jamaat mein shirk ki ibtida aur tukhum raizi sey kul essaiyat ko bigra hoa aur mushrik qarar nahin diya ja sakta.

 @ 3 Important  References

 Now I quote 3 important Ahmadi / Qadiani references to prove that since long the Ahmadis/Qadianis were absolutely against my challenging point i.e. seed sowing of Trinity was done by St. Paul atleast 55 years before the death of Hadrat Isa (AS):-  

(1)   The Holy Quran printed in 1969 by Ahmadis/Qadianis  Page 276, Commentary no. 814 verse 118 of Sura Al-Maidah (1^st Edition) under the auspices of Hadrat Mirza Nasir Ahmad, Head of the Ahmadiyyah Movement in Islam:

          "As long as Jesus was alive, he kept a CAREFUL WATCH over his followers AND SAW TO IT THAT THEY DID NOT DEVIATE FROM THE RIGHT PATH,,,,, but he did not know how they behaved and what false doctrines they held after his death. Now, as his followers have gone astray, it conclusively follows that Jesus is dead, for, as the verse points out, it was after his death that he was to be worshipped as God."  

This is in sharp contrast with my challenging point of seed sowing of Trinity before 65 A.D., i.e., 55 years before the death of Hazrat Isa (A.S.).

This is also in sharp contrast with the book "Shaitan Ke Chailae" as quoted on page 2 in paragraphs numbered 1 to 8.

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(2) Ahmadi / Qadiani Headquarter’s

Al Fazl International Weekly, London
16 Gressenhall Road, London SW18 5QL (U.K.)

          Please see the following transliteration from "Al Fazl International Weekly" dated 26-11-1998 page 11.

This transliterated paragraph is from the article "ZABARDUST ILMI MOAJZAH" written in response to article of Illias Suttar.   

Jaisa ke hamaray Nabi (SAW) ke baqi ashab mukhtalif rahoon sey Madinah mein Hadrat (SAW) ki khidmat mein ja pohnchey thei. Aisa hee Hadrat Isa (AS) ke huwwary mukhtalif rahoon sey mukhtalif waqtoon mein Hadrat Isa (AS) ki khidmat mein ja pohnchey thei, aur jab tak Hadrat Isa (AS) in mein rahey jaisa ke Aayat "ma doomto fehim" ka mansha hey  WOH SUB (i.e. all of them) tauhid per qaim rahey BAAD WAFAT Hadrat Isa (AS) ke in logoan ki auwlaad bigar gai.

In the above paragraph, it is clearly mentioned that all huwwaris were in the right faith of tauhid till the death of Hadrat Isa (AS) in Kashmir i.e. 120 A.D.

 This is in sharp contrast with my challenging point of seed sowing of Trinity before 65 A.D.

 This is also in sharp contrast with the book "Shaitan Ke Chailae" as quoted on page 2 in paragraphs numbered 1 to 8. 

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(3)      Web Site of SAIRA NARGIS (Ahmadi/Qadiani)

 First see the email sent by Saira Nargis:

 Subject:  A REPLY TO MR. ILLYAS SUTTAR'S US$250,000 CHALLENGE!!!!
Date: Fri, 18 May 2001 22:56:53 -0400
From:  "saira nargis" <sairanargis@hotmail.com>
To:    illias@super.net.pk

EVERY BODY PLEASE VIEW THIS WEB SITE...... IT'S A REPLY TO MR. ILLYAS SUTTAR'S US$250,000 CHALLENGE!!!!

http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Delphi/1340/reply/i_satar.htm

 THANK YOU

In her reply to my article, Saira Nargis wrote in her web-site as follows:-

 "If Paul’s preaching period was before 120/125 AD  EVEN THEN his doctrines did not penetrate among Israelite followers of Jesus i.e. Real Christians, (Specially those living in Jerusalem / Palestine) during his lifetime or even many years after his demise."

"In brief the seed of trinity sown by Paul in the name of Jesus amongst "Gentiles" remained isolated from Real Christians in the beginning."

 Observation:

Even Saira Nargis wrote:-    If Paul’s preaching period was before 120/125 AD  EVEN THEN his doctrines did not penetrate among Israelite followers of Jesus i.e. Real Christians.

 This is in sharp contrast with my challenging point of seed sowing of Trinity before 65 A.D.

This is also in sharp contrast with the book "Shaitan Ke Chailae" as quoted on page 2 in paragraphs numbered 1 to 8.

 All Thanks To Allah

The Ahmadis / Qadianis were against my challenging point for so many years.

I have already quoted the following 3 items to prove that the Ahmadis / Qadianis were against my challenging point.

(1)     The Holy Quran printed by Ahmadis / Qadianis and

(2)     Ahmadi / Qadiani official weekly Al Fazl of 26-11-1998 and

(3)             The web-site of Saira Nargis vide her email dated: 18^th May 2001

(4)              .NOW, ALL OF A SUDDEN Hadi Ali Chaudhary in his book "Shaitan Ke Chailae"  agrees  with  my  challenging  point.  This is Ahmadi / Qadiani ABOUT TURN,    ABOUT TURN,     ABOUT TURN. 

           For this I am wholly thankful to Allah.

 1.                 If there is anything wrong in the Torah today, Hazrat Musa A.S. cannot be blamed because the Torah has been changed and is not present in the original form.

 2.       If there is anything wrong in the Injeel (Gospel), then Hazrat Isa(A.S.) cannot be blamed because the Injeel ( Gospel ) has been changed and is not present in the original form.

 3.       If there is anything wrong in the books of Hadith Shareef , then  Hazrat Muhammad ( SAW ) is not responsible because these books were written hundreds of years after Hazrat Muhammad (SAW).

 4.                 BUT, BUT, BUT, the books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed exist without any change because Mirza Ghulam Ahmed came in the Printing Age,

SO HIS BOOKS HAVE BEEN PRINTED AND PRESERVED WITHOUT ANY CHANGE.

So if any gross error is discovered in the Books of Mirza Ghulam Ahmed, then Mirza Ghulam Ahmed must be discarded if you want to please Allah.

Dear Ahmadi / Qadiani Ladies & Gentlemen!!!  Please base your faith on logic. Don’t feel PuzzleD as to where you will go to if you leave Ahmadiat / Qadianiat. Just come to pure Islam, which is based on the Lareb book the Holy Quran, and embraces whatever passes the test in the light of the Holy Quran.  Obey Allah and Allah’s Prophet Hadrat Muhammed (SAW).

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